Thoughts of an oldfag (serious)

I joined this game the 14th of April, 2011, officially anyway. I have seen relatively all versions of this game and the events that would transpire, and though I am not evidently active in the community I remain omnipresent in the daily life of the game, through my pack of friends who have also been here from the start. I have come to see the rise and fall of a great many organizations, ones that in their time would believe that they would last for the length of the game itself, and at its stead, SRB, or Kanker, or whatever you may call us stands at the forefront. Though we have come and gone, our presence is felt, and will be felt for time to come, and though it is my opinion we have never been quite as respected as we should have, I ask that you only listen this one time to the words of an old great.

Afterwind, or At-War as you may refer to it(I'll never accept it sry), still suffers from many issues from the time I played, and even still, it has gotten some more. When I log in, there is no feeling of community that it once had, I knew literally everyone who played and though it was quite niche no one had an empty face behind those colored borders. The game mechanics were fluid, simple yet fun to play, with the knowledge of turnblocking to the extent that it was, and that no one will understand lest they played it, it brought the monotony out of simply stacking infantry, and waiting for someone to get bored enough to rush you, or make a mistake 30 turns down the line, it brought a flavored unreliability and unknown factor into the game that I've never seen replicated in any such strategy game, and I deeply yearn for the days when it was still in the game, even after all these years, having truly tried to play all versions successive to it.

The game has become stale, the metagame, though slightly advanced since I played, is too little for any experienced player to enjoy for time to come, everyone grows tired of the same game, and I was well liked in the community for ridiculous innovations, truly I believe this to be the reason I was considered "good", more-so than others, people like myself are few and far between, and I know without us; it will be taxing on all players, and retention will be lower, as we see these days. I will not suggest that it is outright dead, but I will confidently say that it is not as large as it could be, and as it always could have been. PD will always reign supreme, and people will still complain about the same issues until they are fixed, the solution to defense is not to alter the values, but to bring back something that changes up the game from attack vs defense, to bring back Turnblock. At least, that is my opinion, and always has been, and that's all I'll say on that subject.

Upon returning, I noticed a few things, firstly, my legacy; vain as it is, exists only in the form of zizouism, few(Relatively speaking) know of the great community events and divisions that happened between the Dalmati-SRB-WBL-Whatever else rivalry, the clns these days are not so starkly divided, the soul of the game has decayed from a community to simply a game, that happens to have groups in it, for the most part. All old coalitions were removed from the lists due to inactivity, all old players were quickly removed from the rankings due to dilution of ranks, which I will remark on now.

Scenarios. Scenarios. The bane of my existence. Between the map makers guild of AW and the inherent imbalance of SP you get from the games, it has removed every nice point of the pseudo-culture we had on this game, they took the mock RP and turned it into real RP and completely ruined any charm it had to the jokes, then actually made it a real movement to take their already diseased cells and spread them even further into the metaphorical body that is Afterwind. In a matter of months I went from #7 to off the top 50, what took years erased by a matter of months. I wouldn't be so peeved if it wasn't for the next thing I'll touch on.

What this showed, was what I can only perceive as a sheer disrespect for the old guard, and player base who so loyally played their game for years, and offered time and time again to improve it, because its success was as important, if not more important, to the player than the admin. This is not to say Ivan and Amok have some sinister disdain for the old players, perhaps, they are truly unaware of the situation that many of us feel, I have spoken to many friends, former enemies who I once wanted nothing more than to be rekt in vidya, now brothers in feels as we reminisce on the old days; feeling the same concept; yearning for the past, the good old days, that didn't have to end the way it did.

People still complain about the same things. They were attempted to be addressed, but in the wrong way, and instead of going all the way to fix them and make the perfect game you did only a slight patchwork job, isolating your core base and removing their sense of belonging as they were disregarded time and time again. This is not to talk about SRB mind you, if you ask Hugosch, Caulerpa, Kasap, Aristosseur, even god forbid Gardevoir, all of them will have a great many suggestions they felt wasn't taken seriously enough, and the ones they did were not implemented to a degree that you could say is "sufficient". I would say, simply, Amok & Ivan have lost their heart for the game, and so too their players did, and we now look upon a husk of which I cannot describe to those who did not experience beta to pre-turnblock AW.

So to sum up my long post, I do not condemn Ivan and Amok, but I will never understand their decisions leading up to this point, the game was so perfect that I still some years later get strong nostalgia to play again only to be disappointed heavily upon my return, increasing with each repetition. So I ask, since it is my understanding that you have lost your heart for the game, as Admins, shown quite blatantly by the lack of updates for an insane amount of time, is there anything that we the community who still hold the game dearly could do to restore your zealousness?

Whatever this game is, in its current state, I don't want it, and I feel like a lot of people don't want it. You can ask anyone around and I'm sure they'll all have something to say about its current state, and how they wish it would improve. I miss the old days, and though I know they will never return, I was promised into the new version that there would be something to look forward to in its wake, and I'm still waiting for that.

So, an appeal from the community, and if not the community, then just myself, Please Amok & Ivan, how can we assist you? I'd really like to have the game I so enjoyed back.

Go fruit Go! <3
Rip Dalmati & Srb & Afterwind. 2011-2012 best time <3.

Very well said. It does feel like the admins lost a bit of interest in the game. However I do believe amok has a second job and is the one who knows the coding etc (Which is the reason HTML 5 is dragging) and as for Ivan, I think Ivan is actually trying.. But do I think their heart is in it anymore? I'm not sure.

We early 2012 players fail to take responsibly of the mantle of peace

Can someone give me a quick rundown on how old turnblock worked? i searched the forums but found only vague descriptions. Always wondered.

Most of fruits points i cant comment on as i know nothing of old aw outside of player accounts, but i do agree about ivan and amok. While Ivan seems diligent as ever, you do have to wonder at the lack of updates on even how the html5 translation is progressing, whatever about gameplay updates.

In regards the gameplay though, i think its just like with all games, you get bored of them eventually, some changes could be made yes but theres prodigious skill required to be a true top player in the game. Theres so much more to it than picking a spammy strat and simply trying to outstack your opponent and waiting for them to rush the wrong city(this is what bad players do). Most players never reach that top level.

نوشتع شده توسط Permamuted, 23.01.2015 at 19:13

Can someone give me a quick rundown on how old turnblock worked? i searched the forums but found only vague descriptions. Always wondered.

Most of fruits points i cant comment on as i know nothing of old aw outside of player accounts, but i do agree about ivan and amok. While Ivan seems diligent as ever, you do have to wonder at the lack of updates on even how the html5 translation is progressing, whatever about gameplay updates.

In regards the gameplay though, i think its just like with all games, you get bored of them eventually, some changes could be made yes but theres prodigious skill required to be a true top player in the game. Theres so much more to it than picking a spammy strat and simply trying to outstack your opponent and waiting for them to rush the wrong city(this is what bad players do). Most players never reach that top level.

From what b0nk and Desu have told me. A tb had 100% chance of working every time. Even with one unit. This eliminated super stacking because it could be tb'd every turn. Though I may be wrong.

نوشتع شده توسط Fockmeeard, 23.01.2015 at 19:16

نوشتع شده توسط Permamuted, 23.01.2015 at 19:13

Can someone give me a quick rundown on how old turnblock worked? i searched the forums but found only vague descriptions. Always wondered.

Most of fruits points i cant comment on as i know nothing of old aw outside of player accounts, but i do agree about ivan and amok. While Ivan seems diligent as ever, you do have to wonder at the lack of updates on even how the html5 translation is progressing, whatever about gameplay updates.

In regards the gameplay though, i think its just like with all games, you get bored of them eventually, some changes could be made yes but theres prodigious skill required to be a true top player in the game. Theres so much more to it than picking a spammy strat and simply trying to outstack your opponent and waiting for them to rush the wrong city(this is what bad players do). Most players never reach that top level.

From what b0nk and Desu have told me. A tb had 100% chance of working every time. Even with one unit. This eliminated super stacking because it could be tb'd every turn. Though I may be wrong.

yes, and it was strategized by turn order as to what tbs would be successful, for example if you blocked 1 stack, and it moved first, I think it was 50% on who'd move. But if you tbed first, and they moved as their second move, it was 100%. It was very strategic, and fun, and they denounced it as a bug ;___;

نوشتع شده توسط Permamuted, 23.01.2015 at 19:21

So if there was a 100 unit stack in front of me, and i sent 1 unit at it first move. i could tb it 100% even if they moved theirs first move? Is there a 0% chance if i tried the same tb on my 2nd move?

read above post

نوشتع شده توسط Fruit, 23.01.2015 at 18:40

Hello friends.

I joined this game the 14th of April, 2011, officially anyway. I have seen relatively all versions of this game and the events that would transpire, and though I am not evidently active in the community I remain omnipresent in the daily life of the game, through my pack of friends who have also been here from the start. I have come to see the rise and fall of a great many organizations, ones that in their time would believe that they would last for the length of the game itself, and at its stead, SRB, or Kanker, or whatever you may call us stands at the forefront. Though we have come and gone, our presence is felt, and will be felt for time to come, and though it is my opinion we have never been quite as respected as we should have, I ask that you only listen this one time to the words of an old great.

Afterwind, or At-War as you may refer to it(I'll never accept it sry), still suffers from many issues from the time I played, and even still, it has gotten some more. When I log in, there is no feeling of community that it once had, I knew literally everyone who played and though it was quite niche no one had an empty face behind those colored borders. The game mechanics were fluid, simple yet fun to play, with the knowledge of turnblocking to the extent that it was, and that no one will understand lest they played it, it brought the monotony out of simply stacking infantry, and waiting for someone to get bored enough to rush you, or make a mistake 30 turns down the line, it brought a flavored unreliability and unknown factor into the game that I've never seen replicated in any such strategy game, and I deeply yearn for the days when it was still in the game, even after all these years, having truly tried to play all versions successive to it.

The game has become stale, the metagame, though slightly advanced since I played, is too little for any experienced player to enjoy for time to come, everyone grows tired of the same game, and I was well liked in the community for ridiculous innovations, truly I believe this to be the reason I was considered "good", more-so than others, people like myself are few and far between, and I know without us; it will be taxing on all players, and retention will be lower, as we see these days. I will not suggest that it is outright dead, but I will confidently say that it is not as large as it could be, and as it always could have been. PD will always reign supreme, and people will still complain about the same issues until they are fixed, the solution to defense is not to alter the values, but to bring back something that changes up the game from attack vs defense, to bring back Turnblock. At least, that is my opinion, and always has been, and that's all I'll say on that subject.

Upon returning, I noticed a few things, firstly, my legacy; vain as it is, exists only in the form of zizouism, few(Relatively speaking) know of the great community events and divisions that happened between the Dalmati-SRB-WBL-Whatever else rivalry, the clns these days are not so starkly divided, the soul of the game has decayed from a community to simply a game, that happens to have groups in it, for the most part. All old coalitions were removed from the lists due to inactivity, all old players were quickly removed from the rankings due to dilution of ranks, which I will remark on now.

Scenarios. Scenarios. The bane of my existence. Between the map makers guild of AW and the inherent imbalance of SP you get from the games, it has removed every nice point of the pseudo-culture we had on this game, they took the mock RP and turned it into real RP and completely ruined any charm it had to the jokes, then actually made it a real movement to take their already diseased cells and spread them even further into the metaphorical body that is Afterwind. In a matter of months I went from #7 to off the top 50, what took years erased by a matter of months. I wouldn't be so peeved if it wasn't for the next thing I'll touch on.

What this showed, was what I can only perceive as a sheer disrespect for the old guard, and player base who so loyally played their game for years, and offered time and time again to improve it, because its success was as important, if not more important, to the player than the admin. This is not to say Ivan and Amok have some sinister disdain for the old players, perhaps, they are truly unaware of the situation that many of us feel, I have spoken to many friends, former enemies who I once wanted nothing more than to be rekt in vidya, now brothers in feels as we reminisce on the old days; feeling the same concept; yearning for the past, the good old days, that didn't have to end the way it did.

People still complain about the same things. They were attempted to be addressed, but in the wrong way, and instead of going all the way to fix them and make the perfect game you did only a slight patchwork job, isolating your core base and removing their sense of belonging as they were disregarded time and time again. This is not to talk about SRB mind you, if you ask Hugosch, Caulerpa, Kasap, Aristosseur, even god forbid Gardevoir, all of them will have a great many suggestions they felt wasn't taken seriously enough, and the ones they did were not implemented to a degree that you could say is "sufficient". I would say, simply, Amok & Ivan have lost their heart for the game, and so too their players did, and we now look upon a husk of which I cannot describe to those who did not experience beta to pre-turnblock AW.

So to sum up my long post, I do not condemn Ivan and Amok, but I will never understand their decisions leading up to this point, the game was so perfect that I still some years later get strong nostalgia to play again only to be disappointed heavily upon my return, increasing with each repetition. So I ask, since it is my understanding that you have lost your heart for the game, as Admins, shown quite blatantly by the lack of updates for an insane amount of time, is there anything that we the community who still hold the game dearly could do to restore your zealousness?

Whatever this game is, in its current state, I don't want it, and I feel like a lot of people don't want it. You can ask anyone around and I'm sure they'll all have something to say about its current state, and how they wish it would improve. I miss the old days, and though I know they will never return, I was promised into the new version that there would be something to look forward to in its wake, and I'm still waiting for that.

So, an appeal from the community, and if not the community, then just myself, Please Amok & Ivan, how can we assist you? I'd really like to have the game I so enjoyed back.

Most depressing thing i have heard all day ..... I am noob so I really cant put much into this....

نوشتع شده توسط Fruit, 23.01.2015 at 19:26

read above post

sounds like a simpler but more punishing version of the current tb system. it sounds to me like it would make stealth strats super dominant, since you could essentially halt your opponents advance with minimal units while moving unseen, unturnblockable units behind their lines.

Fruit's theory is correct.

Fruit is right.

(pls put me in sig)

But anyways, I agree, though I don't remember when they got rid of TB, I was here when flower power was OP, I hated it at first when I joined but I liked it as I learned how to use it strategically. If Ivan and Amok could hire someone or sell the game to someone, but still as admins, who could implement how things were before custom maps or change it for the better. I think they need more people, just two of them just doesn't work. How long has HTML5 been going on anyways? Since late 2013? Sheesh.

Reading this makes me realize the only reason I play this game anymore is because of Illy, such a good cln feel

نوشتع شده توسط Permamuted, 23.01.2015 at 19:21

So if there was a 100 unit stack in front of me, and i sent 1 unit at it first move. i could tb it 100% even if they moved theirs first move? Is there a 0% chance if i tried the same tb on my 2nd move?

It was based on the order of the move. Your first move sending that one unit versus their first move moving the stack = 50% tb chance. Good times, you have to predict where the enemy would go so you could TB his stack.

نوشتع شده توسط Permamuted, 23.01.2015 at 19:36

نوشتع شده توسط Fruit, 23.01.2015 at 19:26

read above post

sounds like a simpler but more punishing version of the current tb system. it sounds to me like it would make stealth strats super dominant, since you could essentially halt your opponents advance with minimal units while moving unseen, unturnblockable units behind their lines.

Yeah, that's why you had to wall the stack from another source. It opened up a lot of options.

Now that I hear about it, I kind of like the old TB system better.

Why did it get removed?

نوشتع شده توسط International, 23.01.2015 at 20:35

Now that I hear about it, I kind of like the old TB system better.

Why did it get removed?

Guessing from what I can grasp, they took it down because it was a 'bug'.

نوشتع شده توسط notserral, 23.01.2015 at 20:09

Yeah, that's why you had to wall the stack from another source. It opened up a lot of options.

yea walling and separating out stacks would theoretically help counter that. I think it would drive me mad though, a bit of luck on an opponents side and they could torment you with tbs even if you had your move priorities down perfectly. And its not hard to spam wfs.

i do see though how it would devastate strats like pd. But i also see how powerful mos and gw would become. And they are powerful strats already.

#BringBackOldTBSystem #BringBackBomberWalls #OldIsNew #2015

نوشتع شده توسط Fruit, 23.01.2015 at 18:40

Hello friends.

I joined this game the 14th of April, 2011, officially anyway. I have seen relatively all versions of this game and the events that would transpire, and though I am not evidently active in the community I remain omnipresent in the daily life of the game, through my pack of friends who have also been here from the start. I have come to see the rise and fall of a great many organizations, ones that in their time would believe that they would last for the length of the game itself, and at its stead, SRB, or Kanker, or whatever you may call us stands at the forefront. Though we have come and gone, our presence is felt, and will be felt for time to come, and though it is my opinion we have never been quite as respected as we should have, I ask that you only listen this one time to the words of an old great.
Sun Tsu: Thanks for your insight into how the older players see the game, very much an eye opener.

Afterwind, or At-War as you may refer to it(I'll never accept it sry), still suffers from many issues from the time I played, and even still, it has gotten some more. When I log in, there is no feeling of community that it once had, I knew literally everyone who played and though it was quite niche no one had an empty face behind those colored borders. The game mechanics were fluid, simple yet fun to play, with the knowledge of turnblocking to the extent that it was, and that no one will understand lest they played it, it brought the monotony out of simply stacking infantry, and waiting for someone to get bored enough to rush you, or make a mistake 30 turns down the line, it brought a flavored unreliability and unknown factor into the game that I've never seen replicated in any such strategy game, and I deeply yearn for the days when it was still in the game, even after all these years, having truly tried to play all versions successive to it.
Sun Tsu: I agree PD is a bit too op and can make games boring, at the same time it is good fun wrecking pd with more creative strats like GC or DS. I like the game mechanics how they are now though, I can't really imagine playing the game with any other game mechanics.

The game has become stale, the metagame, though slightly advanced since I played, is too little for any experienced player to enjoy for time to come, everyone grows tired of the same game, and I was well liked in the community for ridiculous innovations, truly I believe this to be the reason I was considered "good", more-so than others, people like myself are few and far between, and I know without us; it will be taxing on all players, and retention will be lower, as we see these days. I will not suggest that it is outright dead, but I will confidently say that it is not as large as it could be, and as it always could have been. PD will always reign supreme, and people will still complain about the same issues until they are fixed, the solution to defense is not to alter the values, but to bring back something that changes up the game from attack vs defense, to bring back Turnblock. At least, that is my opinion, and always has been, and that's all I'll say on that subject.
What I like about AtWar, although a lot of games especially clan wars(3v3) are very similar each game is different in its own right. I agree, I would like to see some change made to the strategies but its not so bad the way it is now.

Upon returning, I noticed a few things, firstly, my legacy; vain as it is, exists only in the form of zizouism, few(Relatively speaking) know of the great community events and divisions that happened between the Dalmati-SRB-WBL-Whatever else rivalry, the clns these days are not so starkly divided, the soul of the game has decayed from a community to simply a game, that happens to have groups in it, for the most part. All old coalitions were removed from the lists due to inactivity, all old players were quickly removed from the rankings due to dilution of ranks, which I will remark on now.
With growth embrace change,the game has grown considerably it would seem and the number of clans reflect that.

Scenarios. Scenarios. The bane of my existence. Between the map makers guild of AW and the inherent imbalance of SP you get from the games, it has removed every nice point of the pseudo-culture we had on this game, they took the mock RP and turned it into real RP and completely ruined any charm it had to the jokes, then actually made it a real movement to take their already diseased cells and spread them even further into the metaphorical body that is Afterwind. In a matter of months I went from #7 to off the top 50, what took years erased by a matter of months. I wouldn't be so peeved if it wasn't for the next thing I'll touch on.
Yea I can see why you are pissed at that, I would be too. I think when scenarios were introduced there should of been more emphasis on balancing the SP to make it more challenging to rank up for sure.

What this showed, was what I can only perceive as a sheer disrespect for the old guard, and player base who so loyally played their game for years, and offered time and time again to improve it, because its success was as important, if not more important, to the player than the admin. This is not to say Ivan and Amok have some sinister disdain for the old players, perhaps, they are truly unaware of the situation that many of us feel, I have spoken to many friends, former enemies who I once wanted nothing more than to be rekt in vidya, now brothers in feels as we reminisce on the old days; feeling the same concept; yearning for the past, the good old days, that didn't have to end the way it did.
I like hearing older AW players tell me there stories of the old days, its like my granparents telling me how they fought in the 2nd world war

People still complain about the same things. They were attempted to be addressed, but in the wrong way, and instead of going all the way to fix them and make the perfect game you did only a slight patchwork job, isolating your core base and removing their sense of belonging as they were disregarded time and time again. This is not to talk about SRB mind you, if you ask Hugosch, Caulerpa, Kasap, Aristosseur, even god forbid Gardevoir, all of them will have a great many suggestions they felt wasn't taken seriously enough, and the ones they did were not implemented to a degree that you could say is "sufficient". I would say, simply, Amok & Ivan have lost their heart for the game, and so too their players did, and we now look upon a husk of which I cannot describe to those who did not experience beta to pre-turnblock AW.
Even if admin have lost interest in the game I still think they do enjoy it judging by their forum posts. I guess it is up to the community though to keep the game alive as admin seem to be inactive within the game

So to sum up my long post, I do not condemn Ivan and Amok, but I will never understand their decisions leading up to this point, the game was so perfect that I still some years later get strong nostalgia to play again only to be disappointed heavily upon my return, increasing with each repetition. So I ask, since it is my understanding that you have lost your heart for the game, as Admins, shown quite blatantly by the lack of updates for an insane amount of time, is there anything that we the community who still hold the game dearly could do to restore your zealousness?
[i[] As I understand there won't be any updates until html5 is released and I would say enjoy the game for what it is, as I say I don't know any different and I have enjoyed it ever since day 1.[/i]

Whatever this game is, in its current state, I don't want it, and I feel like a lot of people don't want it. You can ask anyone around and I'm sure they'll all have something to say about its current state, and how they wish it would improve. I miss the old days, and though I know they will never return, I was promised into the new version that there would be something to look forward to in its wake, and I'm still waiting for that.
What exactly were you expecting?

So, an appeal from the community, and if not the community, then just myself, Please Amok & Ivan, how can we assist you? I'd really like to have the game I so enjoyed back.

You make me regret not having found this game earlier from all the feelings you put into your text... made me feel like a complete noob and like if I actually didn't appreciate all of AW's or Afterwind's possibilities... Too touching...
I'm really sorrry you feel like that. I would like to ask just about one point where you say that old players don't feel respected. Why do you feel like that? Is it just because of the sp or something else apart from that?
As Sun Tsu said, I love hearing about old players, it's like magical because they lived this game before than I did and have much more experience as they saw the game growing or changing. Everyone seems to keep the past of this game in their minds and remember it as something so perfect that makes me feel jealous...
Thanks for sharing your thought Fruit, for real, thanks.

Nice post,

Too large I didn't read.

But Nice post.

I joined feb 2011, fucking youngster

نوشتع شده توسط Spart, 23.01.2015 at 21:29

#BringBackOldTBSystem #BringBackBomberWalls #OldIsNew #2015

OMG IKR!? BOMBERWALLGROVESTREET4LAIF BITCH! <3

نوشتع شده توسط clovis1122, 24.01.2015 at 05:48

Nice post,

Too large I didn't read.

But Nice post.

نوشتع شده توسط International, 23.01.2015 at 20:35

Now that I hear about it, I kind of like the old TB system better.

Why did it get removed?

The argument in favour of modifying the turn block was the 'realism' factor.

A single unit could not realistically immobilize an entire army 100 times its size, 100% of the time as long as it made the first move.

I couldnt agree more with Fruit....

نوشتع شده توسط klevis, 24.01.2015 at 06:33

نوشتع شده توسط clovis1122, 24.01.2015 at 05:48

Nice post,

Too large I didn't read.

But Nice post.

In case you're wondering, I've read the post.

But the fact that he talks about AW without include custom scenarios in his argument wort my no reply.

نوشتع شده توسط clovis1122, 24.01.2015 at 06:42

In case you're wondering, I've read the post.

But the fact that he talks about AW without include custom scenarios in his argument wort my no reply.

oh here we go....

نوشتع شده توسط brianwl, 24.01.2015 at 06:38

نوشتع شده توسط International, 23.01.2015 at 20:35

Now that I hear about it, I kind of like the old TB system better.

Why did it get removed?

The argument in favour of modifying the turn block was the 'realism' factor.

A single unit could not realistically immobilize an entire army 100 times its size, 100% of the time as long as it made the first move.

What the administrators did not take into account was that Gameplay>Realism. If we wanted realism, we would go outside.

نوشتع شده توسط Spart, 23.01.2015 at 21:29

#BringBackOldTBSystem #BringBackBomberWalls #OldIsNew #2015