Should DS be nerfed

Right now DS helis have 8 attack/5 def with 11 range for 130 cost. This seems fine when compared to other offensive strats such as Sky Menace, and Relentless attack. But put DS against PD, or IF and Helis will tear Infantry to shreds with the -2 def bonus on inf (leaving pd inf with just 5 def in cities; this is equal to pre nerf blitz infantry). On top of that, DS is the only offensive strat that has the ability to carry marines, further increasing its power (Marines having 7 attack, and a +1 def bonus against infantry).

Should DS helis be nerfed, or should infantry have the -2 def bonus vs helis removed.

Thoughts or ideas?

Ds is fine...

نوشتع شده توسط JADRAN., 08.05.2016 at 16:42

(leaving pd inf with just 5 def in cities; this is equal to blitz infantry).

Blitz infantries have 4 defense in cities.... hence why several complains about it.

For me DS is just fine. I think that comparing it against a single strategy is wrong by the way.

1) compare it to real life statue ,
2) delete the thread ,
3) yw

نوشتع شده توسط clovis1122, 08.05.2016 at 16:52

نوشتع شده توسط JADRAN., 08.05.2016 at 16:42

(leaving pd inf with just 5 def in cities; this is equal to blitz infantry).

Blitz infantries have 4 defense in cities.... hence why several complains about it.

For me DS is just fine. I think that comparing it against a single strategy is wrong by the way.

Comparing it to the two most popular defensive/ and offensive strategies is wrong? how else would you determine whether a strategy is too op or weak. by comparing it to the rest...

Infantry on all strats/none has a -2 def bonus against helis. If you are vs'ing a DS player your infantry are basically useless unless you can stack hardcore.

Can I ask?Were you beaten by someone who used ds in a duel?because I don't think you were just sitting and come up with this..

If you were then I have to say that I am bored with the players who want nerf to the strats that beat them.

If not then I respect your opinion but I really do not think ds needs a nerf.

نوشتع شده توسط Cold Case, 08.05.2016 at 16:59

Can I ask?Were you beaten by someone who used ds in a duel?because I don't think you were just sitting and come up with this..

If you were then I have to say that I am bored with the playeds who want nerf to the strats that beat them.

If not then I respect your opinion but I really do not think ds needs a nerf.

care to test rolls and let me show you how op helis are vs infantry?

نوشتع شده توسط JADRAN., 08.05.2016 at 17:00

نوشتع شده توسط Cold Case, 08.05.2016 at 16:59

Can I ask?Were you beaten by someone who used ds in a duel?because I don't think you were just sitting and come up with this..

If you were then I have to say that I am bored with the playeds who want nerf to the strats that beat them.

If not then I respect your opinion but I really do not think ds needs a nerf.

care to test rolls and let me show you how op helis are vs infantry?

So you did lose a duel I guess and now you are butthurt (jk ofc <3)

Hmmm i know ds can have good rolls vs inf but thats its point,like blitz has range,imp low cost but all strats have a weak spot,ds has range and defence,blitz defence and cost,if range and cost.

You see my point?

DS is just fine, Look at how often it is played on EU+ compared to other strats 3k/5k/10k then look at world games all money settings, look at custom maps etc. No where will you find it over used, this is the greatest indicator that it is indeed not OP.

Yes it can have some nice rolls, but it can also have some terrible rolls, 1 marine 1 heli fails 1 militia every so often. In a duel recently 1 marine 3 heli failed 4 PD militia...I could go on. Not to mention it is expensive, less range than SM, militia are good for defense but not as maneuverable as inf. You are stuck using expensive marines and helicopter mostly. It can easily be countered.

Personally I really like DS as a strategy and think it is quite viable, but it is certainly not OP or game breaking in any way.

نوشتع شده توسط Prometheus, 08.05.2016 at 17:10

DS is just fine, Look at how often it is played on EU+ compared to other strats 3k/5k/10k then look at world games all money settings, look at custom maps etc. No where will you find it over used, this is the greatest indicator that it is indeed not OP.

Yes it can have some nice rolls, but it can also have some terrible rolls, 1 marine 1 heli fails 1 militia every so often. In a duel recently 1 marine 3 heli failed 4 PD militia...I could go on. Not to mention it is expensive, less range than SM, militia are good for defense but not as maneuverable as inf. You are stuck using expensive marines and helicopter mostly. It can easily be countered.

Personally I really like DS as a strategy and think it is quite viable, but it is certainly not OP or game breaking in any way.

good points, however I do think it would be worth reconsidering the -2 def bonus vs helis on all inf.

Use anti-aircraft...

نوشتع شده توسط Sun Tsu, 08.05.2016 at 18:13

Use anti-aircraft...

AA is a joke. If you ever used AA you would know that AA vs SM bombers for instance does nothing. I've seen some pretty horrible rolls with bombers/helis vs AA.

نوشتع شده توسط JADRAN., 08.05.2016 at 18:18

نوشتع شده توسط Sun Tsu, 08.05.2016 at 18:13

Use anti-aircraft...

AA is a joke. If you ever used AA you would know that AA vs SM bombers for instance does nothing. I've seen some pretty horrible rolls with bombers/helis vs AA.

1 AA can take out up to 7 helis, try it.

نوشتع شده توسط Sun Tsu, 08.05.2016 at 18:29

نوشتع شده توسط JADRAN., 08.05.2016 at 18:18

نوشتع شده توسط Sun Tsu, 08.05.2016 at 18:13

Use anti-aircraft...

AA is a joke. If you ever used AA you would know that AA vs SM bombers for instance does nothing. I've seen some pretty horrible rolls with bombers/helis vs AA.

1 AA can take out up to 7 helis, try it.

Lol in what world. I always use AA against helis/sm bombers, especially when I know a rush is coming. I have upgraded AA, and never have I had rolls such as that. 1 bomber usually will kill 1 AA

As someone that has used AAs for a while I can personally say that they are very underrated, yes 1 AA may not give you consistent rolls, but if you manage to get a few together against SM bombers or DS helis they can do some serious damage (rolls are not consistent, but when you get good ones, they are great)

On topic, I don't think DS really needs a nerf atm, its hardly played enough as it is and decreasing its power would just kill it off even more. The -1/-2 def bonus for other strats does make for a strong attack, but then again every strat has its strong suit and DS's is being able to kill mass amounts of infs/milis.

نوشتع شده توسط JADRAN., 08.05.2016 at 18:32

نوشتع شده توسط Sun Tsu, 08.05.2016 at 18:29

نوشتع شده توسط JADRAN., 08.05.2016 at 18:18

نوشتع شده توسط Sun Tsu, 08.05.2016 at 18:13

Use anti-aircraft...

AA is a joke. If you ever used AA you would know that AA vs SM bombers for instance does nothing. I've seen some pretty horrible rolls with bombers/helis vs AA.

1 AA can take out up to 7 helis, try it.

Lol in what world. I always use AA against helis/sm bombers, especially when I know a rush is coming. I have upgraded AA, and never have I had rolls such as that. 1 bomber usually will kill 1 AA

stacking effect is your friend. i had 4 aa kill over 20 helis once, it was 23 helis and a marine vs 40 inf 4 aa. However if you get outstacked then yea the aa wont be very effective.

DS ukr killed turkey for me.
I go spain now, gl beating spain with ds ukr.

DS is not OP. It needs to be cost effective while expanding and the like, since its very expensive. 130 cost Helis and equally expensive Marines would have you going bankrupt if not for the bonus against militias and Infantry.
Its efficient against PD, and relatively underpowered against Imp, another popular strat

نوشتع شده توسط Darth., 08.05.2016 at 21:31

DS is not OP. It needs to be cost effective while expanding and the like, since its very expensive. 130 cost Helis and equally expensive Marines would have you going bankrupt if not for the bonus against militias and Infantry.
Its efficient against PD, and underpowered against Imp, another popular strat

You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Underpowered against imp? you got to be kidding right?
It is the most cost efficient and reinforcement efficient strat when it comes to expanding.
You think 130 cost helies are expensive? SM bombers, Regular tanks, mos marines cost equally the same. The big difference is that Helies are much much much more efficient at expanding and they can carry a marine to capture.

نوشتع شده توسط ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:35

It is the most cost efficient

Not true.

نوشتع شده توسط ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:35

نوشتع شده توسط Darth., 08.05.2016 at 21:31

DS is not OP. It needs to be cost effective while expanding and the like, since its very expensive. 130 cost Helis and equally expensive Marines would have you going bankrupt if not for the bonus against militias and Infantry.
Its efficient against PD, and underpowered against Imp, another popular strat

You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Underpowered against imp? you got to be kidding right?
It is the most cost efficient and reinforcement efficient strat when it comes to expanding.
You think 130 cost helies are expensive? SM bombers, Regular tanks, mos marines cost equally the same. The big difference is that Helies are much much much more efficient at expanding and they can carry a marine to capture.

And that marine also costs 130, which is why it's expensive. MoS you need to buy only 130 cost Marines. SM you can use cheap infantry to capture with maybe one or two chained ATs. DS you need both 130 cost Helis, and 130 cost Marines.
Also, I'm not saying DS is useless against Imp, I'm not saying you can't use it, what I'm saying is, compared to its performance against PD, it is underwhelming against Imp because tanks are pretty cheap.

Also, stop judging me based on my rank. I'm speaking from experience here when I say DS isn't as effective against Imp.

نوشتع شده توسط clovis1122, 08.05.2016 at 21:40

نوشتع شده توسط ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:35

It is the most cost efficient

Not true.

Ok clovis we all get it IMP militia are most cost efficient at expanding.Imp militia are so OP efficient that you see people like chess and tophat use them exclusively to expand.

نوشتع شده توسط ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:41

نوشتع شده توسط clovis1122, 08.05.2016 at 21:40

نوشتع شده توسط ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:35

It is the most cost efficient

Not true.

Ok clovis we all get it IMP militia are most cost efficient at expanding.

You forgot to name GW Marines and IMP infantries as well.

نوشتع شده توسط Darth., 08.05.2016 at 21:41

نوشتع شده توسط ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:35

نوشتع شده توسط Darth., 08.05.2016 at 21:31

DS is not OP. It needs to be cost effective while expanding and the like, since its very expensive. 130 cost Helis and equally expensive Marines would have you going bankrupt if not for the bonus against militias and Infantry.
Its efficient against PD, and underpowered against Imp, another popular strat

You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Underpowered against imp? you got to be kidding right?
It is the most cost efficient and reinforcement efficient strat when it comes to expanding.
You think 130 cost helies are expensive? SM bombers, Regular tanks, mos marines cost equally the same. The big difference is that Helies are much much much more efficient at expanding and they can carry a marine to capture.

And that marine also costs 130, which is why it's expensive. MoS you need to buy only 130 cost Marines. SM you can use cheap infantry to capture with maybe one or two chained ATs. DS you need both 130 cost Helis, and 130 cost Marines.
Also, I'm not saying DS is useless against Imp, I'm not saying you can't use it, what I'm saying is, compared to its performance against PD, it is underwhelming against Imp because tanks are pretty cheap.

Also, stop judging me based on my rank. I'm speaking from experience here when I say DS isn't as effective against Imp.

Lets see the bare minimum needed for sm or ds to capture a 8 infantry capital that can't be reached in one turn by ground troops

DS
6 helies x 130 = 780
1 marine = 130
Total = 910

SM
9 Bombers x 130 = 1170
air trans + 1 MILITIA = 430
Total 1600

I'm not judging you by your rank, I'm judging you by your elo, your relative inexperience in the game, your win rate (279 (won 85))

نوشتع شده توسط clovis1122, 08.05.2016 at 21:44

نوشتع شده توسط ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:41

نوشتع شده توسط clovis1122, 08.05.2016 at 21:40

نوشتع شده توسط ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:35

It is the most cost efficient

Not true.

Ok clovis we all get it IMP militia are most cost efficient at expanding.

You forgot to name GW Marines and IMP infantries as well.

GW marines = 10 cost per 1 att

Imp militia = 5 cost per 1 att

The game isn't black and white clovis. Helicopters have
1. Necessary range
2. Good Attack power for price compared to SM bombers, regular tanks.

When you compare the cost it takes for say GW ukr to grab moscow compared to DS to grab moscow, you can clearly see that when you factor in range, the best cost-efficient unit DOES NOT turn out to be the most cost efficient.

نوشتع شده توسط ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:47

GW marines = 10 cost per 1 att

Imp militia = 5 cost per 1 att

DS helis ~ 13 cost per 1 att (against infantries only).

EDIT: What you're naming here is just one specific case.

نوشتع شده توسط clovis1122, 08.05.2016 at 21:57

نوشتع شده توسط ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:47

GW marines = 10 cost per 1 att

Imp militia = 5 cost per 1 att

DS helis ~ 13 cost per 1 att (against infantries only).

Clovis cost efficiency at attacking ALSO depends on range.

How much does it cost GW ukr to take moscow?

10 Marines + Air trans = 750 + 700 = 1450

How much does it cost DS ukr to take Moscow?

6 helies x 130 = 780
1 marine = 130
Total = 910


Like I said, this game isn't black and white. Cost efficiency also depends on range, otherwise imp militia would pwn everything with their 1:5 att:cost efficiency.

نوشتع شده توسط ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:45

نوشتع شده توسط Darth., 08.05.2016 at 21:41

نوشتع شده توسط ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:35

نوشتع شده توسط Darth., 08.05.2016 at 21:31

DS is not OP. It needs to be cost effective while expanding and the like, since its very expensive. 130 cost Helis and equally expensive Marines would have you going bankrupt if not for the bonus against militias and Infantry.
Its efficient against PD, and underpowered against Imp, another popular strat

You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Underpowered against imp? you got to be kidding right?
It is the most cost efficient and reinforcement efficient strat when it comes to expanding.
You think 130 cost helies are expensive? SM bombers, Regular tanks, mos marines cost equally the same. The big difference is that Helies are much much much more efficient at expanding and they can carry a marine to capture.

And that marine also costs 130, which is why it's expensive. MoS you need to buy only 130 cost Marines. SM you can use cheap infantry to capture with maybe one or two chained ATs. DS you need both 130 cost Helis, and 130 cost Marines.
Also, I'm not saying DS is useless against Imp, I'm not saying you can't use it, what I'm saying is, compared to its performance against PD, it is underwhelming against Imp because tanks are pretty cheap.

Also, stop judging me based on my rank. I'm speaking from experience here when I say DS isn't as effective against Imp.

Lets see the bare minimum needed for sm or ds to capture a 8 infantry capital that can't be reached in one turn by ground troops

DS
6 helies x 130 = 780
1 marine = 130
Total = 910

SM
9 Bombers x 130 = 1170
air trans + 1 MILITIA = 430
Total 1600

I'm not judging you by your rank, I'm judging you by your elo, your relative inexperience in the game, your win rate (279 (won 85))

And that AT can be reused again and again. It's a onetime purchase kinda like lifetime premium. It's cheaper in the long run. So 1600-600=1000
Also you can get by with 8 bombers so that knocks 130 off the cost. 1000-130=870
You need 7 helis since it's easy to fail with 6 so that adds 130 cost. 910+130=1040

---

Ds you have to keep replacing dead helis and Marines while in SM, out of 8 bombers and 1 inf/militia you send, I've found that between 5-6 bombers will be left over. Helis die a lot more, and thus DS becomes slightly more expensive, which is why since it has less range, it needs that bonus against inf and militia.

---

Also, I've technically played less than 200 games. The rest are training matches. Both for my practice as well as me training a couple of lower ranks. Forgive me sensei, for being so helpful

---

My low ELO is from a single duel with 1godofwar1. I got my ass kicked

نوشتع شده توسط ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:59

Clovis cost efficiency at attacking ALSO depends on range.

نوشتع شده توسط clovis1122, 08.05.2016 at 21:57

EDIT: What you're naming here is just one specific case.